As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. Is it exponential, squared? Yep, definately not a meat locker. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. $21 . Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. The car never overheats, if that has any import. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. I mean, really a lot. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. Can I use the one for the R-12? You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. I have just bought gauges. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. That is a good thing. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Can I use the one for the R-12? Jun 19, 2007. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. I think the way to go here is1. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. maintain the A/C of older cars. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. R1234yf. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. In short, NO! It won't be optimal, though. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. What is a good differential? 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. Your old hoses of course will not fit. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. If 50 degrees across the cond. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. . The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . The flammables have hydrocarbons. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. Talk about what services you provide. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Are you sure you have an R4? Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. How is 1234yf different from . I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Just leave it alone for now. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Safe but sorry! Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). gital control scheme. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. #19. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Please enter a password for your user account. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. Big . Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system.
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